by canadagraphs1 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:15 am
well, I thought this absurd thread was dead & buried...but since its not...I guess I'll reply....
Heyheyyou wrote:
If they really want the autographs they can get it via venue. Dealers are scum I am sorry you can say all you want I need to make money blah,blah,blah but you ruin it for others. Don't you get it?? I hope celebs stop signing for you.
What percentage of the general public do you think understand that you can occasionally get an autograph via venue, production offices or arenas? VERY FEW!
The mother of 3 living in a town nowhere near a big city, let alone even the same state/province as her kids favorite stars/athletes can buy, more often than not, an autograph, have it shipped to her, IN FAR LESS TIME, for the same price, or less than she could do it herself. When you take in the time to find an item, purchase it, write a note, package the item, mail it...then you are actually hoping it comes back. From a practicality standpoint, anyone with an even moderately busy life is saving themselves a crapload of time and in some cases, money, just buying it.
You are entitled to your opinion on dealers. Personally, I have that same opinion on varying subsections of society myself. Odds are, I am probably partially wrong JUST LIKE YOU.
You seriously think sellers ruined the hobby for collectors? I have been doing this since the 80s. FAR before ebay, and trust me, athletes were just as gruff about signing then as they are now. On average, a celebrity or athlete likely (for the time efficiency aspect) would rather deal with pros than random fans. A fan is often unorganized, wants multiple types of interactions and is often goes away wanting more than they got in interaction time. For them to sign 10 items for 2-4 dealers will take them several minutes less than to sign that same quantity for 10 different "fans". I see it everyday, players are flustered & annoyed because Joe Fan is fumbling with the item, finally gets it, has to find a pen, then gives him that, gets the item signed, now wants a photo with them, needs to find someone to take the photo, explain how the camera works, ooops it didnt work, try again, ok, now he wants to tell the player what a big fan of his he is. Player is now annoyed. Next person comes up, repeat process.
I dont NEED you to like me. I frankly dont care. But your opinion on matters is slightly flawed. For each player that probably doesnt want to sign because of a seller, theres 1 that doesnt stop because he doesnt want to deal with the overly zealous fans. They ruint hings just as much as we are.
chriscollector wrote:So working is not an option, but standing in airports, arenas, theatres, and in celeb filled areas for hours and hours on end is just fine??? You can't stand at a cash register, yet all the work you do in tracking down stars seems to be fine???
I would respect you sooo much more had you just flat out spoke the truth. You don't want to work a 9 to 5 so you sell autographs. In a day of successful graphing you can get 3-5 big items and profit 50-100$ each and that's why you do it.
I think known dealers should be treated as any other business. Register with the BBB, get a tax ID, business license, carry liability insurance, and pay taxes then the dealers will fade into the sunset.
Actually, no. I cant. Ask any of the regulars in Vancouver, they will tell you, I miss a LOT of days because I cant get up the next day after overworking myself the day before. in the winter, I will probably miss 10-20 days of hounding with back & knee problems arising from hounding the day before. I spent over a $1000 on my last trip, and spent a day & 1/2 not hounding when there was stuff to hound because I just physically didnt think I could do it again. So dont give me this "oh, you dont want to work a real job" b.s.
"A day of successful graphing" in Vancouver is FAR short of 3-5 big items at profits of $50-100. Thats like a 1 time every year or 2 event. That might be possible in L.A. any given week, but in Vancouver, getting ONE $50-100 item in a week is a pretty good week.
As for paying taxes. We most certainly have to do that...ESPECIALLY ME. Anyone on disability has to tell the government EVERY MONTH (not just at tax season) what we made....and I can tell you, they are far from tolerant about any sort of possible discrepancies.Trust me, I am paying them back $20 a month for a year because I screwed up my records ONCE.
vjw0307 wrote:
Sorry, but I somewhat agree. Its people like this who are the reason some celebs and athletes no longer sign...people are selling autographs, probably not reporting it as income, and causing signers to be skeptical about signing.
Again, yes some do stop signing because of sellers....but theres alot as well that dont because of FANS.
as for income reporting, I know in Canada, its pretty thoroughly watched. Maybe in the U.S. they fly under the radar more?
packrat wrote:It's not just that, it's the sneakiness of it all. They pose as collectors and request autographs on premium items only to turn around to sell the unsuspecting celeb's/sports personality's autographs.
I do a ton of IP graphing in my neck of the woods during baseball season. I pretty much know everyone who graphs here and I know who the dealers are. I have never once seen a dealer be upfront and tell the player what their intentions are. That is why celebs and sports personalities are becoming more and more reluctant to sign. They don't know by looking at us who is a collector and who is a dealer, so they'll only sign one or sometimes simply don't sign. Or they give really lousy autographs to lessen the value of the item.
The only way to stop the selling is to stop the buying. As long as there are idiots who purchase autographs there will be idiots who will sell.
I can agree with you on the dealers who arent forthcoming with players types.
Most legit, honest dealers dont like them either.
You are saying you have NEVER heard a dealer fess up to why they have 6 of the exact same photo for someone??? Really? "Never" is the line your going with here??? Lmao.
So people who buy autographs now are idiots? Well, next time you need your house painted, or decorated, or your car serviced, or even want a Starbucks coffee, you probably should do it yourself...wouldnt want us thinking your an idiot for paying someone to do something you could do yourself.
Jackathus wrote:I agree with everyone that thinks its wrong selling autographs. I'm pretty sure if you loved the celeb enough, you would rather have the knowledge that this precise autograph was for you. If you buy them I think that you can't be as big a fan as you think (unless of course, its from someone who has passed away or no longer signs, so buying is the only way), becase if you were, you would put the time and effort in, and think it was an achievement.
Again, as I pointed out earlier. Many people simply dont have the time, or the knowledge on how to obtain an item ttm...so, instead of buying a plane ticket to whereever the celeb/athlete is, put in dozens of hours trying to figure out where they COULD be, and if lucky enough to get it right, then jostle for a position with possible dozens of hundreds of people for several hours....they buy 1, for a literal fraction of the potential cost.
Try telling the mother of 3 who works 2 jobs, hasnt had a vacation day in 2 yrs that she is expected to fly somewhere, spend hours, possibly days, just because her kids want autographs from the new player/celeb of the week. Good luck, she likely will knock you out for even suggesting it.
well, I thought this absurd thread was dead & buried...but since its not...I guess I'll reply....
[quote="Heyheyyou"]:roll: If they really want the autographs they can get it via venue. Dealers are scum I am sorry you can say all you want I need to make money blah,blah,blah but you ruin it for others. Don't you get it?? I hope celebs stop signing for you.[/quote]
What percentage of the general public do you think understand that you can occasionally get an autograph via venue, production offices or arenas? VERY FEW!
The mother of 3 living in a town nowhere near a big city, let alone even the same state/province as her kids favorite stars/athletes can buy, more often than not, an autograph, have it shipped to her, IN FAR LESS TIME, for the same price, or less than she could do it herself. When you take in the time to find an item, purchase it, write a note, package the item, mail it...then you are actually hoping it comes back. From a practicality standpoint, anyone with an even moderately busy life is saving themselves a crapload of time and in some cases, money, just buying it.
You are entitled to your opinion on dealers. Personally, I have that same opinion on varying subsections of society myself. Odds are, I am probably partially wrong JUST LIKE YOU.
You seriously think sellers ruined the hobby for collectors? I have been doing this since the 80s. FAR before ebay, and trust me, athletes were just as gruff about signing then as they are now. On average, a celebrity or athlete likely (for the time efficiency aspect) would rather deal with pros than random fans. A fan is often unorganized, wants multiple types of interactions and is often goes away wanting more than they got in interaction time. For them to sign 10 items for 2-4 dealers will take them several minutes less than to sign that same quantity for 10 different "fans". I see it everyday, players are flustered & annoyed because Joe Fan is fumbling with the item, finally gets it, has to find a pen, then gives him that, gets the item signed, now wants a photo with them, needs to find someone to take the photo, explain how the camera works, ooops it didnt work, try again, ok, now he wants to tell the player what a big fan of his he is. Player is now annoyed. Next person comes up, repeat process.
I dont NEED you to like me. I frankly dont care. But your opinion on matters is slightly flawed. For each player that probably doesnt want to sign because of a seller, theres 1 that doesnt stop because he doesnt want to deal with the overly zealous fans. They ruint hings just as much as we are.
[quote="chriscollector"]So working is not an option, but standing in airports, arenas, theatres, and in celeb filled areas for hours and hours on end is just fine??? You can't stand at a cash register, yet all the work you do in tracking down stars seems to be fine???
I would respect you sooo much more had you just flat out spoke the truth. You don't want to work a 9 to 5 so you sell autographs. In a day of successful graphing you can get 3-5 big items and profit 50-100$ each and that's why you do it.
I think known dealers should be treated as any other business. Register with the BBB, get a tax ID, business license, carry liability insurance, and pay taxes then the dealers will fade into the sunset.[/quote]
Actually, no. I cant. Ask any of the regulars in Vancouver, they will tell you, I miss a LOT of days because I cant get up the next day after overworking myself the day before. in the winter, I will probably miss 10-20 days of hounding with back & knee problems arising from hounding the day before. I spent over a $1000 on my last trip, and spent a day & 1/2 not hounding when there was stuff to hound because I just physically didnt think I could do it again. So dont give me this "oh, you dont want to work a real job" b.s.
"A day of successful graphing" in Vancouver is FAR short of 3-5 big items at profits of $50-100. Thats like a 1 time every year or 2 event. That might be possible in L.A. any given week, but in Vancouver, getting ONE $50-100 item in a week is a pretty good week.
As for paying taxes. We most certainly have to do that...ESPECIALLY ME. Anyone on disability has to tell the government EVERY MONTH (not just at tax season) what we made....and I can tell you, they are far from tolerant about any sort of possible discrepancies.Trust me, I am paying them back $20 a month for a year because I screwed up my records ONCE.
[quote="vjw0307"]
Sorry, but I somewhat agree. Its people like this who are the reason some celebs and athletes no longer sign...people are selling autographs, probably not reporting it as income, and causing signers to be skeptical about signing.[/quote]
Again, yes some do stop signing because of sellers....but theres alot as well that dont because of FANS.
as for income reporting, I know in Canada, its pretty thoroughly watched. Maybe in the U.S. they fly under the radar more?
[quote="packrat"]It's not just that, it's the sneakiness of it all. They pose as collectors and request autographs on premium items only to turn around to sell the unsuspecting celeb's/sports personality's autographs.
I do a ton of IP graphing in my neck of the woods during baseball season. I pretty much know everyone who graphs here and I know who the dealers are. I have never once seen a dealer be upfront and tell the player what their intentions are. That is why celebs and sports personalities are becoming more and more reluctant to sign. They don't know by looking at us who is a collector and who is a dealer, so they'll only sign one or sometimes simply don't sign. Or they give really lousy autographs to lessen the value of the item.
The only way to stop the selling is to stop the buying. As long as there are idiots who purchase autographs there will be idiots who will sell.[/quote]
I can agree with you on the dealers who arent forthcoming with players types.
Most legit, honest dealers dont like them either.
You are saying you have NEVER heard a dealer fess up to why they have 6 of the exact same photo for someone??? Really? "Never" is the line your going with here??? Lmao.
So people who buy autographs now are idiots? Well, next time you need your house painted, or decorated, or your car serviced, or even want a Starbucks coffee, you probably should do it yourself...wouldnt want us thinking your an idiot for paying someone to do something you could do yourself.
[quote="Jackathus"]I agree with everyone that thinks its wrong selling autographs. I'm pretty sure if you loved the celeb enough, you would rather have the knowledge that this precise autograph was for you. If you buy them I think that you can't be as big a fan as you think (unless of course, its from someone who has passed away or no longer signs, so buying is the only way), becase if you were, you would put the time and effort in, and think it was an achievement.[/quote]
Again, as I pointed out earlier. Many people simply dont have the time, or the knowledge on how to obtain an item ttm...so, instead of buying a plane ticket to whereever the celeb/athlete is, put in dozens of hours trying to figure out where they COULD be, and if lucky enough to get it right, then jostle for a position with possible dozens of hundreds of people for several hours....they buy 1, for a literal fraction of the potential cost.
Try telling the mother of 3 who works 2 jobs, hasnt had a vacation day in 2 yrs that she is expected to fly somewhere, spend hours, possibly days, just because her kids want autographs from the new player/celeb of the week. Good luck, she likely will knock you out for even suggesting it.
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