by googenheimergig » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:39 am
packrat wrote:I think you ought to be careful when you accuse an "expierenced member" as not knowing what they are talking about. If I don't know about a subject I simply keep my mouth shut. Or in this case, keep my fingers off the keyboard.
Yes, a COA is basically worthless to me. I have a few of them from baseball players that I purchased an autograph directly from them (such as Brooks Robinson) and they can be easily duplicated. I rely more heavily on the individual's known signing habits and my own research. I don't purchase autographs from third-party sellers. Holograms can be faked, or even lifted from other items and made to match a card. I've known this to happen. The problem is that people don't do their research, they just take it for granted that the seller is not cheating on them (it DOES have a hologram so it MUST be legit, right?). Stiener's COA, for example, may carry a bit more weight, but they are not generally actual witnesses to the signing itself. About the only COA that might be worth anything to me would be from Upper Deck. They have a strict policy that inlcudes a rule that the guy who signs the COA has to actually witness the person signing the item.
Jaffer, you opened my eyes a bit. You are 100% correct when you say that pretty much all of the autograph selling on eBay is a black market. I never thought of that before. Not one seller is actually authorized to sell an autograph by the celebrity or athlete or their agents/representatives. You know, that would probably cover many third-party websites as well.
I'll address all three posts in one since I'm too lazy to quote three separate ones.
To chriscollector and arrowsup: Authentication outlets do make mistakes but they are somewhat rare. I mean, these places are charging you $60 or so I believe. I think there's a little exaggeration in the "they put their sticker on everything that went through the door.". Just my opinion. I do agree that from a personal standpoint, if you don't see it in person, it is thought to be authentic. And yeah, as I said before, top authenticators do make mistakes. But to say they happen most of the time? Not drinking that coolaid. Also, if someones swapping the hologram and card and forging a ball, then they'd have to be really good, because most players have very distinctive autographs that are simply not easy to forge. I'm not here to "just be argumentitive". I've made other threads asking different questions trying to get information. I believe that there are some good people out there who are honest and try not to cheat people of their money. And I admit, there are scumbags out there also. There are absolutely fakes online. There are items that are called fakes even though they are real. I got Ubaldo Jimenez IP on an 8 by 10, and it looks funny. If I sent that to Steiner, I'm betting it would come back as being not authentic, even though I got it in person. I'm not trying to come off as this guy who is just trying to start arguments, and if I come off like that to you, I apologize. That's not what I intend, and I hope you understand that.
To packrat: Most of what I wanted to say to you is in the above paragraph, but I did want to say something to you. To say that I know nothing about the subject is outright slander. As I said before, if someone forges an auto on something to match the coa, then they must be really good, because some players have very distinctive autographs that are difficult to forge. And they have to post a photo online, which you can compare to others online. I don't buy off eBay very often, but I do my homework. Also, you know where the guy lives. If you think an item is fake, send it off to global or steiner. If it comes back fake, ask the guy for a refund. And I highly doubt that he would only do it to one person then have the rest real so it wouldn't damage his reputation. Once somebody is famous for forgeries, their rep is in the crapper and nobody buys from them. Just my 2 cents.
[quote="packrat"]I think you ought to be careful when you accuse an "expierenced member" as not knowing what they are talking about. If I don't know about a subject I simply keep my mouth shut. Or in this case, keep my fingers off the keyboard.
Yes, a COA is basically worthless to me. I have a few of them from baseball players that I purchased an autograph directly from them (such as Brooks Robinson) and they can be easily duplicated. I rely more heavily on the individual's known signing habits and my own research. I don't purchase autographs from third-party sellers. Holograms can be faked, or even lifted from other items and made to match a card. I've known this to happen. The problem is that people don't do their research, they just take it for granted that the seller is not cheating on them (it DOES have a hologram so it MUST be legit, right?). Stiener's COA, for example, may carry a bit more weight, but they are not generally actual witnesses to the signing itself. About the only COA that might be worth anything to me would be from Upper Deck. They have a strict policy that inlcudes a rule that the guy who signs the COA has to actually witness the person signing the item.
Jaffer, you opened my eyes a bit. You are 100% correct when you say that pretty much all of the autograph selling on eBay is a black market. I never thought of that before. Not one seller is actually authorized to sell an autograph by the celebrity or athlete or their agents/representatives. You know, that would probably cover many third-party websites as well.[/quote]
I'll address all three posts in one since I'm too lazy to quote three separate ones.
To chriscollector and arrowsup: Authentication outlets do make mistakes but they are somewhat rare. I mean, these places are charging you $60 or so I believe. I think there's a little exaggeration in the "they put their sticker on everything that went through the door.". Just my opinion. I do agree that from a personal standpoint, if you don't see it in person, it is thought to be authentic. And yeah, as I said before, top authenticators do make mistakes. But to say they happen most of the time? Not drinking that coolaid. Also, if someones swapping the hologram and card and forging a ball, then they'd have to be really good, because most players have very distinctive autographs that are simply not easy to forge. I'm not here to "just be argumentitive". I've made other threads asking different questions trying to get information. I believe that there are some good people out there who are honest and try not to cheat people of their money. And I admit, there are scumbags out there also. There are absolutely fakes online. There are items that are called fakes even though they are real. I got Ubaldo Jimenez IP on an 8 by 10, and it looks funny. If I sent that to Steiner, I'm betting it would come back as being not authentic, even though I got it in person. I'm not trying to come off as this guy who is just trying to start arguments, and if I come off like that to you, I apologize. That's not what I intend, and I hope you understand that.
To packrat: Most of what I wanted to say to you is in the above paragraph, but I did want to say something to you. To say that I know nothing about the subject is outright slander. As I said before, if someone forges an auto on something to match the coa, then they must be really good, because some players have very distinctive autographs that are difficult to forge. And they have to post a photo online, which you can compare to others online. I don't buy off eBay very often, but I do my homework. Also, you know where the guy lives. If you think an item is fake, send it off to global or steiner. If it comes back fake, ask the guy for a refund. And I highly doubt that he would only do it to one person then have the rest real so it wouldn't damage his reputation. Once somebody is famous for forgeries, their rep is in the crapper and nobody buys from them. Just my 2 cents.
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