My Rochus Misch Success and Forum Censorship

[elmomommyto2]

While I agree with Ian on pretty much all of his points, I completely disagree that this post shouldn't have been allowed. Posts are posts and that's it. Each member can decide for themselves if they'd like to try to get an autograph on their own. I will grant you, the title of the success should have been changed, but that's obvious. But it's ridiculous to have deleted this post, but not the Saddam Hussein success, or countless others where the subject has done something controversial (or what some might even consider evil). Either delete every controversial success (which would be way too many) or don't.

P.S. Not to get too far off-topic, but I find it highly ironic that members who post forged successes (and even when they are proved to be such beyond a shadow of a doubt) do not get warned or even have their posts removed and yet here is a member with a success who isn't being allowed to post. Ridiculous.

[whosurdaddy]

I have a grandson who's 7 , let's say he decides to collect autographs and comes to me and says he wants to write Rochus Misch and brittany spears. Personally I'd rather have him write misch at least he can do some research and learn something about history, be it good or bad. I would have a major problem however of him writing spears who is a drug and alcohol abuser, endangers and loses her kids and is an absloute train wreck. I agree with elmomommyto2 to either delete every controverial success or don't. and as far as her P.S. I could not have said it better, the blatant forgeries on here by a few members is outrageous but that's ok.

[TheCollector]

Hi elmomommyto2 & whosurdaddy

I agree with most of what you have said, and I totally respect personal choice, which is why I said in my post:

Would I have deleted it? It would be a close call, maybe / maybe not.

On reflection I probably would have gone down the route of monitoring the response to the post by other members before deciding whether to remove the post or not, but that is just me. If it offended enough people then I would have then had to make the call.

It is difficult for me to comment too much about recent events on the board with regard to posting of fakes, since I have not been around much at all for the past few months due to work committments. I do however intend to be around much more, certainly until the new year, and I have approached Admin with several suggestions on how we can "tighten things up" on the forum with regard to wayward members

I can't really say too much more about that at the moment until I have the commitment of all those concerned, but I hope to be able to do something positive to improve things.

I too abhor the posting of fakes on here which purport to be genuine just to deceive. However, as I know you will accept, this is a very different argument to members receiving autopens/secretarials etc and inadvertantly posting them as genuine through lack of experience

It is going to take me a little while to get back into the swing of things on here, but if I have anything to do with it I will not be standing for any fakery!

Ian

[Markd]

I don't want this board to get hung up on political arguments. Somebody had to make a call on whether it was right to post a 'success' from one of the foremost individuals on the side of the Nazis in WW2.

Certainly not one of the foremost.

The main problem I noticed from the original post is that markd listed it as "Hitler's right hand man". Not wholly accurate for a telephone operator/bodyguard, but inflamatory none the less!

I agrre I should not have said "Hitler's Right hand man", I should have said :One of Hitler's right hand men. He spent the whole war with Hitler and often spent time at the Hitler estate with Adolph Hitler and Eva Braun.

You all know I won't mince my words (which often gets me in trouble!!) but somebody made the call, and on this occasion that somebody was Admin. This is his board ultimately, and as such he has to look at the 'bigger picture'. We have youngsters on here from 13 upwards, and it can be asked what kind of message are we passing onto our youth when we say that because time has passed, we can forget the attrocities of 1939/45.

Yes I am aware there are youngsters I'm sure I myself would be considered a youngster (I'm 15). How am I saying that we can forget WWII by me getting an autograph from a man who was there. He too has condemned the war and, as I have said before, tried to get the government to erect a monument and plaque commemorating the lives of a group of children who were killed, so no one would forget them.

I think the situation would have been different had the autograph been collected during the war as a historial item, but to actively seek it out this many years later . . . I'm not sure.

Obviously that would not have been possible but because time has passed the autograph no longer has the history it would have then. That is like saying: "I think people should have collected Gerald Ford's autograph only while he was president, but to try and get his autograph many years after he was out of office . . . I'm not sure

Personally I lost people from my own family in both wars. Long after some of them came home - they still suffered from the effects of it. I can understand that certain people's autographs are of historical value, and this one certainly will be in the future. But I do question the motives behind wanting to have it in a personal collection.

I too lost people from my family during the war. What were my motive's for getting his autograph? I have only one and that is: to get a signature from someone who was actively involved in one of the most well known events in history. I mainly collect historical autographs. If you were to look at my collection you would see that I have far more political and historic autographs than any other group of people.

On the other hand I would never choose to have something like that in my personal posession. In a museum, so that we may all learn from the mistakes of the past - definately. In my autograph album at home, never.

Well that is your choice, I think for those who don't like hearing about someone getting a success from a nazi then just don't write to him.

What you have to ask yourself is why this individual is notorious. And if your conscience can live with the answer - then I say go for it. But when your own kids look through your autograph collection in years to come and ask who this bloke is, and why you have his signature in your collection - will you be ready to explain? Our autograph collections include people we look up to, people who we admire. That is why my conscience has a problem with Rochus Misch.

If I have kids one day who are looking through my collection I certainly do hope they ask, The man has an amazing story behind him. being a Canadian we learn just about those who served on the Canadian, American, and British side of the war. With this autograph you see a man who also joined the war for, most likely the same motives as Canadians did. Just because his side made a huge mistake, and eventually lost the war should we condemn him for life as a "bad guy" and make it a bad thing to say his name. I think not!

[Markd]

Oops. Not sure why that got posted twice. Sorry!

[Drezzal]

I agree with you that the admin was out of line, an autograph like this sure is one to brag about. Any one who was in the WWII and can tell the tale of it to this day is a hero {thumb2}

[crystal815]

oh lookie...my response was deleted from here TOO!!!
such a loving community we've become, looks like some people are just allergic to honesty.

[jasonw]

This member wrote to rochus misch for collecting purposers, not politcal ones. Why do we ban a feedback which makes a great piece in ones politcal autograph collection? We should look at this success through the eyes of collector, and managing to get a success from a men involved in one of the world's most well known event - well done.
Jason.

[miley cyrus fan]

i agree we have a right to speak our minds why cant we ,this is autograph site not something that needs to be so censored, whats next im not going to be allowed to say im a christian or im not gonna be allowed to say merry christmas or happy easter come on admin you made a awsome site and because of it i got some awsome autographs but lower the censorship.

[Shambler]

Wow. I've only discovered this topic now that jasonw bumped it up. This board is out of hand.

So you want to censor ex Nazi's, who played a very important role in history and are NOT Nazi's anymore? Well then please remove all successes from the Pope too. The guy was an ex-Nazi but everyone forgets bout that. TheCollector, wouldn't you say its very wrong to have an autograph from the Pope too now?

And while the censorship is at it, why not remove sayings like 'i love Jesus' and user names like 'putgodfirst'?! Those are very offensive to my beliefs, which are Atheist of nature. Heck, even scrap all George Bush's successes - he caused major wars and resulted in the loss of lives of many innocent people, like the American guys who went over to fight.

Oh and ban all republican successes too. I only like Barack Obama, so only leave successes from him there to read. See what I'm getting at? We all have very different political and religious beliefs. Let US be the ones to decide what we want and don't want to read. If someone gets a success from the Pope or another Christian figure, I'm not gonna read it, but leave them be cos many others will want to read it.


I mean, I got stripped of my moderating powers cos a bunch of stirrers thought me and another moderator from South Africa were the same person. Oh yes, and the fact that I asked opinions on something I was going to do for charity. Not forgetting the one autograph 'expert' who hates my guts and had me removed, when his posts are always 90% offensive.