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I sent a LOR to Leven Rambin a few days ago but the address in the database wasn't updated. Will her old management firm forward the letter or should I just send another one?

One of three things...
Either you will get an RTS, the old agency will be kind enough to forward it to the correct place, or you will never receive anything back at all.

I would write to the new address. In a month or so, see if you get an RTS that way you can just use your original letter and stuff. I'd include an SASE and some pics too this way you have better chances of getting a reply.

lalashi485 wrote:I sent a LOR to Leven Rambin a few days ago but the address in the database wasn't updated. Will her old management firm forward the letter or should I just send another one?

You might get RTS, or you might not get anything. I also sent a while ago to an old address... didn't hear back yet. Good luck!

Spookii wrote:One of three things...
Either you will get an RTS, the old agency will be kind enough to forward it to the correct place, or you will never receive anything back at all.

I would write to the new address. In a month or so, see if you get an RTS that way you can just use your original letter and stuff. I'd include an SASE and some pics too this way you have better chances of getting a reply.

That's a good idea. I rather wait a bit and see if I get it back. I really hope they are decent enough to RTS and not just dump it in the trash.

lalashi485 wrote: That's a good idea. I rather wait a bit and see if I get it back. I really hope they are decent enough to RTS and not just dump it in the trash.

I wasn't going to say anything until I saw the last sentence.

Decent enough?!

What kind of holier than thou BS attitude is that? They owe you NOTHING.

You sent a letter to someone in care of a company that said person is no longer paying, and you're going to call them not decent people because they might just have the gall to not go out of their way to return it to you?

These companies don't exist to serve you. You aren't paying them. They also have their own policies on how to deal with unsolicited mail.

Some companies will return unsolicited mail unopened because that's their policy.
Some companies will refuse to return unsolicited mail because that's their policy.

Once they receive anything in the mail from someone with whom they have no agreement, it becomes their property.

It's not your place, at all, to say what they should do with their property or badmouth them for not doing what you think they should do with their property.

Newsflash: That doesn't make them bad people. That makes you sound spoiled and entitled.

If you want a say in what they do with unsolicited mail, go become the president of the company.

If you don't like that management companies have no allegiance to the fans of clients that they don't represent and that said fans don't get to dictate their unsolicited mail policies, don't send unsolicited mail to management companies.

See how simple that is?

To anyone who has a problem with anything I just said: yes, I do have a problem with people who go around insulting people they've never met over policies that they have no say over. And yes, saying things like "I hope they're decent enough to..." is insulting and rude, because what it's saying is that if they do the alternative, they aren't decent people, which is, again, insulting and rude.

MW1221 wrote:

lalashi485 wrote: That's a good idea. I rather wait a bit and see if I get it back. I really hope they are decent enough to RTS and not just dump it in the trash.

I wasn't going to say anything until I saw the last sentence.

Decent enough?!

What kind of holier than thou BS attitude is that? They owe you NOTHING.

You sent a letter to someone in care of a company that said person is no longer paying, and you're going to call them not decent people because they might just have the gall to not go out of their way to return it to you?

These companies don't exist to serve you. You aren't paying them. They also have their own policies on how to deal with unsolicited mail.

Some companies will return unsolicited mail unopened because that's their policy.
Some companies will refuse to return unsolicited mail because that's their policy.

Once they receive anything in the mail from someone with whom they have no agreement, it becomes their property.

It's not your place, at all, to say what they should do with their property or badmouth them for not doing what you think they should do with their property.

Newsflash: That doesn't make them bad people. That makes you sound spoiled and entitled.

If you want a say in what they do with unsolicited mail, go become the president of the company.

If you don't like that management companies have no allegiance to the fans of clients that they don't represent and that said fans don't get to dictate their unsolicited mail policies, don't send unsolicited mail to management companies.

See how simple that is?

To anyone who has a problem with anything I just said: yes, I do have a problem with people who go around insulting people they've never met over policies that they have no say over. And yes, saying things like "I hope they're decent enough to..." is insulting and rude, because what it's saying is that if they do the alternative, they aren't decent people, which is, again, insulting and rude.

You do realize you just made a mountain out of a molehill, right? I don't think anyone owes me anything and I certainly don't feel entitled. On the contrary, I am fully aware that management groups and/or artists don't have to cater to me. I was not trying to be rude or insulting. Quite frankly your reply is perplexing, absurdly long and ironically rude. You don't know me, which means, you can't read into what I write and pretend to know what I intended to convey. If you didn't like the words I used, too bad. I guess you feel like you have the right to scold me because this is a public forum, but you don't. I am open to criticism when approached in a respectful manner. Instead, you resorted to this.

lalashi485 wrote:

MW1221 wrote:

lalashi485 wrote: That's a good idea. I rather wait a bit and see if I get it back. I really hope they are decent enough to RTS and not just dump it in the trash.

I wasn't going to say anything until I saw the last sentence.

Decent enough?!

What kind of holier than thou BS attitude is that? They owe you NOTHING.

You sent a letter to someone in care of a company that said person is no longer paying, and you're going to call them not decent people because they might just have the gall to not go out of their way to return it to you?

These companies don't exist to serve you. You aren't paying them. They also have their own policies on how to deal with unsolicited mail.

Some companies will return unsolicited mail unopened because that's their policy.
Some companies will refuse to return unsolicited mail because that's their policy.

Once they receive anything in the mail from someone with whom they have no agreement, it becomes their property.

It's not your place, at all, to say what they should do with their property or badmouth them for not doing what you think they should do with their property.

Newsflash: That doesn't make them bad people. That makes you sound spoiled and entitled.

If you want a say in what they do with unsolicited mail, go become the president of the company.

If you don't like that management companies have no allegiance to the fans of clients that they don't represent and that said fans don't get to dictate their unsolicited mail policies, don't send unsolicited mail to management companies.

See how simple that is?

To anyone who has a problem with anything I just said: yes, I do have a problem with people who go around insulting people they've never met over policies that they have no say over. And yes, saying things like "I hope they're decent enough to..." is insulting and rude, because what it's saying is that if they do the alternative, they aren't decent people, which is, again, insulting and rude.

You do realize you just made a mountain out of a molehill, right? I don't think anyone owes me anything and I certainly don't feel entitled. On the contrary, I am fully aware that management groups and/or artists don't have to cater to me. I was not trying to be rude or insulting. Quite frankly your reply is perplexing, absurdly long and ironically rude. You don't know me, which means, you can't read into what I write and pretend to know what I intended to convey. If you didn't like the words I used, too bad. I guess you feel like you have the right to scold me because this is a public forum, but you don't. I am open to criticism when approached in a respectful manner. Instead, you resorted to this.

Then please enlighten me as to how "I really hope they are decent enough to RTS and not just dump it in the trash" doesn't mean "If they dump it in the trash instead of RTS'ing it, they aren't decent people".

I'm not reading into what you said, I'm reading what you said.

You used the word decent as a substitutive adjective for the people themselves, not the action.

There's a difference between "I really hope they do the decent thing and RTS and not just dump it in the trash" (which you didn't say) and "I really hope they are decent enough to RTS and just dump it in the trash" (which you did say).

The former is saying that the action of throwing it in the trash is not decent, and says nothing of the character of the people doing it. It attacks the action, and not the person doing the action.

The latter is saying that the people who throw it into the trash are not decent. That is attacking the character of the person doing the action, as opposed to actual action itself.

You want to talk shit about someone's actions you disagree with? Fine.
But you cross over and start talking shit about someone's character when you don't know them? You best believe that I'm going to have a problem with that.

I wasn't going to say anything until I saw the last sentence.

Decent enough?!

What kind of holier than thou BS attitude is that? They owe you NOTHING.

You sent a letter to someone in care of a company that said person is no longer paying, and you're going to call them not decent people because they might just have the gall to not go out of their way to return it to you?

These companies don't exist to serve you. You aren't paying them. They also have their own policies on how to deal with unsolicited mail.

Some companies will return unsolicited mail unopened because that's their policy.
Some companies will refuse to return unsolicited mail because that's their policy.

Once they receive anything in the mail from someone with whom they have no agreement, it becomes their property.

It's not your place, at all, to say what they should do with their property or badmouth them for not doing what you think they should do with their property.

Newsflash: That doesn't make them bad people. That makes you sound spoiled and entitled.

If you want a say in what they do with unsolicited mail, go become the president of the company.

If you don't like that management companies have no allegiance to the fans of clients that they don't represent and that said fans don't get to dictate their unsolicited mail policies, don't send unsolicited mail to management companies.

See how simple that is?

To anyone who has a problem with anything I just said: yes, I do have a problem with people who go around insulting people they've never met over policies that they have no say over. And yes, saying things like "I hope they're decent enough to..." is insulting and rude, because what it's saying is that if they do the alternative, they aren't decent people, which is, again, insulting and rude.

You do realize you just made a mountain out of a molehill, right? I don't think anyone owes me anything and I certainly don't feel entitled. On the contrary, I am fully aware that management groups and/or artists don't have to cater to me. I was not trying to be rude or insulting. Quite frankly your reply is perplexing, absurdly long and ironically rude. You don't know me, which means, you can't read into what I write and pretend to know what I intended to convey. If you didn't like the words I used, too bad. I guess you feel like you have the right to scold me because this is a public forum, but you don't. I am open to criticism when approached in a respectful manner. Instead, you resorted to this.[/quote]

Then please enlighten me as to how "I really hope they are decent enough to RTS and not just dump it in the trash" doesn't mean "If they dump it in the trash instead of RTS'ing it, they aren't decent people".

I'm not reading into what you said, I'm reading what you said.

You used the word decent as a substitutive adjective for the people themselves, not the action.

There's a difference between "I really hope they do the decent thing and RTS and not just dump it in the trash" (which you didn't say) and "I really hope they are decent enough to RTS and just dump it in the trash" (which you did say).

The former is saying that the action of throwing it in the trash is not decent, and says nothing of the character of the people doing it. It attacks the action, and not the person doing the action.

The latter is saying that the people who throw it into the trash are not decent. That is attacking the character of the person doing the action, as opposed to actual action itself.

You want to talk **** about someone's actions you disagree with? Fine.
But you cross over and start talking **** about someone's character when you don't know them? You best believe that I'm going to have a problem with that.[/quote]

I didn't mean anything by it. It is just an expression. You are approaching the entire thing in an aggressive manner. I really don't want to continue this back and forth because it is pointless. Clearly nothing I say is going to satisfy you. I am not trying to get into an argument with a perfect stranger that I don't know and who does not know me. I'm done and as far as I'm concerned this thread is done.

lalashi485 wrote: I didn't mean anything by it. It is just an expression. You are approaching the entire thing in an aggressive manner. I really don't want to continue this back and forth because it is pointless. Clearly nothing I say is going to satisfy you. I am not trying to get into an argument with a perfect stranger that I don't know and who does not know me. I'm done and as far as I'm concerned this thread is done.

Ok, but you didn't bother responding to anything I wrote.

And no, it's not "just an expression" any more than "you're an idiot" is just an expression.

Adjectives modify nouns.

You modified the implied noun "people" with the adjective "decent" as part of a conditional. Once again, that means that if the people's actions fail to meet the terms of your conditional, you're saying that they aren't decent people.

If you modified the noun "action" with the adjective "decent" as part of the same conditional, you'd be conveying an entirely different meaning.

You attacked people, as opposed to the actions you disagree with. That's not just an expression any more so than any other attack is just an expression.

That is what you did here. I don't know whether you meant to or not, but I do know that you did it.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it that, whether you like it or not, there's a difference between "I hope they're decent enough people to return it instead of throwing it away" and "I hope they do the decent action and return it instead of throwing it away" and one of them (the one you used) is an uncalled for attack against someone's character.

As for whether or not you meant anything by it, that really doesn't matter. If I call you an idiot, I still attacked you, whether I meant to attack you or not. When you blatantly insult someone's character, intent doesn't matter.

MW1221 wrote:

lalashi485 wrote: I didn't mean anything by it. It is just an expression. You are approaching the entire thing in an aggressive manner. I really don't want to continue this back and forth because it is pointless. Clearly nothing I say is going to satisfy you. I am not trying to get into an argument with a perfect stranger that I don't know and who does not know me. I'm done and as far as I'm concerned this thread is done.

Ok, but you didn't bother responding to anything I wrote.

And no, it's not "just an expression" any more than "you're an idiot" is just an expression.

Adjectives modify nouns.

You modified the implied noun "people" with the adjective "decent" as part of a conditional. Once again, that means that if the people's actions fail to meet the terms of your conditional, you're saying that they aren't decent people.

If you modified the noun "action" with the adjective "decent" as part of the same conditional, you'd be conveying an entirely different meaning.

You attacked people, as opposed to the actions you disagree with. That's not just an expression any more so than any other attack is just an expression.

That is what you did here. I don't know whether you meant to or not, but I do know that you did it.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it that, whether you like it or not, there's a difference between "I hope they're decent enough people to return it instead of throwing it away" and "I hope they do the decent action and return it instead of throwing it away" and one of them (the one you used) is an uncalled for attack against someone's character.

As for whether or not you meant anything by it, that really doesn't matter. If I call you an idiot, I still attacked you, whether I meant to attack you or not. When you blatantly insult someone's character, intent doesn't matter.

I have not responded to what you said based on your approach. I'm an adult and I don't like being talked down to. I prefer to avoid conflict. With that being said, I can concede that my choice of words was not the most appropriate. I honestly didn't mean anything negative by it and I certainly don't feel like anyone owes me anything. I suppose I see it like when you are speaking with someone and you jokingly say "you're so stupid" but you don't actually mean it. I don't think any less of Leven's old management if they do decide to throw my mail away. It's their prerogative.