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does mahummard ali do secretials , because the one i got back from G.O.A.T is not a pp or autopen. but the picture i sent is not signed instead they sent back a different picture signed , with a thankful greeting about caring so much , with one of his favourite phrases about money in the bank etc. :o

http://www.fanmail.biz/mboard/viewtopic ... hammad+ali

In that thread, a few people state he sends authentics.

I think he sends autopens, due to his condition. I read in a magazine that he needs help with just about everything he does, so I doubt he is able to sign autographs.

Ali has been sending out the same autopens for over 15 years. It is well known in the hobby and has been reported in several autograph publications over the years unfortunately alot of new collectors believe them to be authentic.

i looked at the thread you linked up , and mine is the same photo but the signiture is a slightly different place , it has the two mms covered by his hair.same colored pen, deeper ink at the ends of autograph, possibly signed alot before he got really bad. no one really knows. LIVE IN HOPE !

This is one of the reasons I hate when people send out autopens because they cause great controversy. This is not to say that I believe Ali sends out autopens (in fact I have been a strong supporter to the belief that he sends out real autos). However, as I have stated in another discussion, the fact that autopens are used makes it a lot more difficult to determine authenticity. However, due to the shakyness of his autos, I believe that they are real. Ali is a great man and I believe that he takes care of his fans. However, this is just an opinion, but keep up the hope.

Go Red Sox

this is picture hopfully done thishttp://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01061aa0.jpg right.[/list]

Heres you pic you posted (I blew it up so it could be seen better), and Im afraid to say its the same autopen he always sends out, including in the thread referenced above, where several poor facts are mentioned.

An autopen doesnt have to be in the same place on each photo, as its a machine that holds a pen and signs the photo.

The shakiness can easily be copied by an autopen, theyre designed to copy an auto exactly, I dont know why people see this as a sign of authenticity The shakiness is more pronounced when a thinner nibbed pen is used, so maybe that is why, Im not sure.

Comparison -

unfortuantley we now live in a world with to many forgeries, it is getting hard to tell what is real and what is not, but looking at the photos and not understanding autopen to much , i do see a few of the same patterns on each different photo , i guess we have to live in hope. besides no one really knows if it is real or not because we werent there when they signed it. LIVE IN HOPE.

HOLLEY 1 wrote:unfortuantley we now live in a world with to many forgeries, it is getting hard to tell what is real and what is not, but looking at the photos and not understanding autopen to much , i do see a few of the same patterns on each different photo , i guess we have to live in hope. besides no one really knows if it is real or not because we werent there when they signed it. LIVE IN HOPE.

This link shows a short video of what an autopen does -

http://www.signaturemachine.com/products/demo_page.htm

But basically the autopen is a machine that writes the autograph for a celeb, and does the exact same autograph everytime, enabling us to see that Ali does quite clearly use an autopen.

The only reason the sig. looks different to the naked eye( which to me it doesn't) is the different pens used and thickness of the pens. Get yourself a UV Light and a jewelers loop and look at the sig. With all due respect this is a no brainer and is clearly an autopen. I have an authentic Ali got in person at a show in the mid 80's and I also have the same exact autopen pic. and sig. received thru the mail in the early 90's If anyone thinks the Thru the mail sig. is authentic I have it in an envelope marked and will sell to anyone for $20.00 U.S. includes shipping! considering authentic Ali autographs go for $250.00 on up it's a steal.