Frank Sinatra

[NickButler]

We found this in my Grandmothers closet a while back, we think it's real (a later signature) but Sinatra has been known to do secretarial signatures.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh80 ... 0_1115.jpg

This is from the official Sinatra family website: http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh80 ... trasig.png

What do you think?

[pizzamonster555]

This appears to be secretarial.

[jrott]

I am really not sure what to make of this, do you have a way to find out the history of it? How your Grandmother might have got it?

I am not going to voice an opinion on this one but I would highly suggest reading this in depth study of his signature and looking at the listed examples of authentic's and sec's. They have examples from the 1940's through the 80's. This should be a good starting point for you. Click on the picture in the lower left hand corner to scroll the pages
http://www.uacc.info/page61.html

[NickButler]

If it is real, I would say 60's.

We've thought of sending it to get check for authenticity, but it's so pricey for Sinatra.

[Doc Holiday]

Very strange. Let's look at this realistically. It was supposedly found in your Grandmothers closet. It's signed on "It might as well be swing" (1964) The signature has the characteristics of a mid 50's early 60's variation. So far so good, everything corresponds. However it's signed in blue sharpie which didn't come out till 1979. Add all that up and you have a forgery.

[NickButler]

Very strange. Let's look at this realistically. It was supposedly found in your Grandmothers closet. It's signed on "It might as well be swing" (1964) The signature has the characteristics of a mid 50's early 60's variation. So far so good, everything corresponds. However it's signed in blue sharpie which didn't come out till 1979. Add all that up and you have a forgery.

The Sharpie marker wasn't even introduced until 1969 . . . does that mean every autograph signed in black marker before 1969 is fake?

Blue markers existed well before the 1960's.

[Doc Holiday]

The first Felt tip pen/ fine marker that you could write with without dipping it in ink wasn't introduced in the U.S. untill 1960. There's a distinct difference between the writing from those instruments and what you have signed. It's very clear that what you have was signed by a sharpie.
Heck the first non refillable ball point pen wasn't introduced into the U.S. until 1946. I would love to see a blue writing marker pre 1960. I hope you don't purchase vintage autographs on ebay.

[NickButler]

I had a professional look at it (with the UACC) he said it looked to be authentic from the 60's. He said the blue marker was introduced in 1965. According to him, it's probably real.

[Doc Holiday]

I didn't realize being a member of the UACC made you a professional. I hope he's a UACC member and not a Registered Dealer. If he is please PM me his name. It's definately not someone I would want to do business with. Enjoy your autograph.

[NickButler]

He didn't supply any documents, and never said the words "it's authentic" (because I wasn't paying him, I told him not to) but he said "it looks to be real".

He's been a UACC member since 1972 and on the executive board since 1985.

He's written numerous studies on specific peoples signatures, including Sinatra.

He's written several other articles on autograph related work, and has won multiple awards from the UACC such as the UACC "Lifetime Achievement award" as well as the "Autograph Dealer of the Year Award".

He's been featured on the Discovery channel as an appraiser. He has both chaired UACC committees and sat on UACC committees.

I'm not going to ask any 'member' to authenticate my autograph of Frank Sinatra.

EDIT: I'm not saying it's real. He didn't say it was 100% real. I know it wont be considered 100% authentic until I get a JSA or whatever.